Well it’s certainly no surprise to me to learn that Alex’s new CMS (ImmerseCMS) has ceased to exist for the time being.
To be honest, I didn’t even expect it to last this long – nearly hitting the one year mark I believe.
Anyway, I’ll start right back at the beginning.
It all began when the vanishing man appeared; supposedly having not been well. I was suspicious – he’d been gone for a couple of years nearly. All of a sudden, he pops up out of the woodwork.
We get chatting via MSN, and I bring up the subject of his old buddie, Maz. He said he felt really bad for having just given up when he did, and that he didn’t feel he’d be able to talk to him again as he didn’t know how Maz felt talking to him… I asked him if he wanted to rejoin Eto, and he said he’d think about it and put an offer to me; So I (foolishly – I think now, as this whole escapade may never have happened) spoke to Maz and gave him Alex’s MSN address.
So they go off chatting and a few hours later Maz let it slip that Alex had been working on a CMS. He wouldn’t give me any more details as he felt he’d let too much slip already (just that Alex was working on the CMS).
Anyway, straight away I knew what Alex’s game plan was. He wanted Maz to do all the graphics leg work for his new CMS – he’d used me to get him.
I also knew that if this was the case, then I wouldn’t be able to rely on Maz for doing the work on the Etomite CMS – not that I didn’t want him to do it, I didn’t believe that he’d have the time to do it. Don’t forget, Maz has his own site to run, and knowing Alex, he’d have Maz doing absolutely anything and everything. I didn’t believe that Maz would be able to give the Etomite CMS the much needed makeover it needed, to the standard it needs. I wasn’t pissed at Maz, as he was doing (at the time) what he thought would be best. We all make decisions during life that lead us all down different paths.
Before I continue, I’ll let you know that if I sense something, or have an idea; I’m not usually far off – call it my “giftâ€Â… Nearly all the time I get it right.
Anyway, a little bit of time goes by and then all hell breaks loose during the night (UK time). Alex decides to pull and advertising stunt.
Let me give you a bit of background info. When Alex departed from Etomite, he made us split the MODx basecamp from Etomite. It literally divided the community – and Ralph and I had to take all the shit that came with it. He felt that MODx were using the Etomite forums as a springboard to fork Etomite as their own, so pushed them before they jumped so to speak. If it was me, I’d have handled it differently.
Now since Alex left, up until he reappeared, we had been taking the flack over his decision. But it’s something we had stuck by. Then he posts on the forum that he thinks its childish to have the word filter on the forums… HANG ON – YOU MADE US CHUFFING PUT IT THERE!
So, I removed the word filter anyway. I let it slide.
So – to recap, he forced the community to divide over advertising on forums.
THEN – He went over to the MODx Community board and posted that he thought the MODx cms was slowing down. He also left hints on how to find his new CMS.
Then as retalliation, as the MODx team thought we had something to do with it, we got some posts over on the Etomite forums about it all. I was well confused. I hadn’t told anyone from the MODx camp about his CMS, only our developers of the Etomite CMS. And I knew it wasn’t them to blame.
After a bit of investigation, and public arguments, I did some digging. I donned my sherlock holmes hat and went digging deep. I took the IP that made the post on our forums and looked at the MODx WIKI – the IP had made a change to a page of their WIKI. I asked around as to who had made the change, and it was Ryan. He was sussed and owned up to it. He then said to delete the thread as it wasn’t meant to go the way it did. I deleted it – now certain members of the MODx camp weren’t happy. I told Ryan to deal with it as I wasn’t happy at all. Alex had started an argument on the MODx forums, and then it had spilled over to us – I thought the days of arguing were well gone.
At this point, I was mad. Maz had publicly explained that he had no part in it, and Alex disappeared for a couple of days. Then he [Alex] reappeared and posted on the MODx forums. He completely ignored us, and didn’t even acknowledge us in his apology. Nor did he tell me in person. I had to find it from the MODx forums. Alex has still not to this day apologized to the Etomite Community, or me.
It was at this point that Alex seemed to turn Maz against us (or more importantly Me). Maz publicy slandered me on his forum, and then started posting about me & Etomite on his Blog. TBH, look who’s CMS is STILL alive and growing by the day – and yet Maz doesn’t believe that we were the best choice for the CMS?? Bullshit! We were the only ones offered to take it on full time when they decided to jump ship. And to this day, we are still BOTH there; carrying the Etomite torch.
Yeah, I posted over at OpenDesigns, when someone recommended Alex’s CMS (supposedly from the makers of Etomite …huh????).. I then wrote back a statement.. Maybe I could have written it differently, but TBH I don’t think that the outcome would have been any different.
“I’d just like to correct you on this. Immerse CMS has been written by the original developer; before he abandoned the gpl product when the going got tough. He wanted to snatch the carpet out from under the users in favor of writing a new product that he could charge for.. 2 years later he wrote Immerse. It’s written under his own license; god only knows if he will do the same with this one.â€Â
I’m sorry, but whats not true about that? It is 100% accurate – he wanted to abandon Etomite GPL and create a Commercial CMS, MetaCube. He did abandon it when he couldn’t get his own way, when the Community started revolting. Needless to say, Alex never did like the truth.
I’ve been visiting Alex’s CMS forums daily now – waiting for the apology that would never come. Maybe I’m a believer that he’d have eventually realised. But now, nearly 1 year later (well in 4 days it would have been), there’s been no apology. And guess what, his CMS had vanished off the planet. Again. Let me go back once again to that statement on OD… “god only knows if he will do the same with this one†…. Guess what??? HE DID!
He’s been running rings round people, feeding them excuse after excuse.
Anyway, I’ll finish my header now…
“As another CMS ceases to exist, it makes me wonder where it all went wrong for everyone else that got tangled up in Alex’s plans, and should I have forewarned everyone?â€Â
In closing, I really do have a bad feeling just now – I have this feeling that I will be experiencing Deja-Vu again in a year’s time; but will Maz be able to hold himself from being drawn in again? I hope so as if he doesn’t, it could be the final nail in the coffin for InvisionCube.
I don’t have any comment to make on your above comments. However, for those who were Immerse users, and happen upon this, I am posting a copy of the e-mail that I have just sent to him.
Hi Alex
This message is not going to be pleasant I’m afraid, as frankly, I’m very bloody angry at you. Once again, it seems, you have managed to make a complete and utter idiot out of me, by doing your vanishing act.
Only this time, it’s much worse of course, as you’ve taken all of my design and work with you, and left me with absolutely nothing. You, you have my design for the Immerse manager interface, my design for the Immerse forums, my design for the Immerse website, and my design for the new InvisionCube website. I don’t have a single copy of any of the above, as, as you well know, they were all held on your immerse.org server, which, thanks to your utter and complete selfishness, vanished without a trace, leaving me no time to recover my works.
You are, whether you like it or not, no better than a common thief, stealing the time, work, and goodwill of those who place their trust into you. You should be utterly and completely ashamed of yourself.
You really should thank your lucky stars that I don’t know your home address, because I swear, if I ever find it out, I will be paying you a visit, you can be assured of that. Yes, I really am that bloody angry. You have left me without any reputation, any work, and a huge problem to deal with in regards to my own website. How the hell you sleep at night is completely beyond my comprehension.
By all means, make a complete arse of yourself in the future, but don’t you dare imagine that you will do it to me again. And if I can help it, you won’t be doing it to others either.
Please don’t bother to tell me it’s your illness. Even if that were true, I refuse to believe that you were incapable of telling me that you were feeling run-down or whatever else. I suspected something was going wrong when you told everyone how your router had blown, and it still hadn’t been replaced weeks later! How stupid do you think people are? Well, obviously I am as stupid as you thought, as you are the one with everything to show for our work, and I am the one with nothing to show for it!
Maz
********************************
Will I ever trust Alex again? Not a chance. Do I think he’ll do the exact same thing again? Yes.
I suspect that in a few months, we’ll see yet another new CMS appear, rebranded, etc. And once again, this will happen. He will get bored with it, start issuing a few excuses, like “my router has blownâ€Â, and just vanish again.
He really is, as far as I’m concerned, no better than a cheap thief, and should be avoided. I’ve been stung twice now; never again.
P.S. Feel free to use my above comment in any context, on any site. I stand by my words entirely.
The more people are forewarned, the better, as far as I am concerned.
For those wanting a copy of the iCMS license, it’s here:
THE IMMERSE PUBLIC LICENSE AND END USER AGREEMENT (VERSION 1.0)
LICENSE
The Immerse Project, hereafter referred to as `Immerse`, grants you a non-exclusive license to use the Immerse Content Management System, including the Immerse Application Framework, hereafter referred to as the `Software`. Usage of the Software is subject to the provisions in all sections of this Agreement.
TERM
Immerse CMS is offered under perpetual licensing. The perpetual license provides access to upgrades and patches to the software as and when they are made available. No services or support are offered by this license.
SCOPE OF GRANT
You may:
* customize the Software’s design and operation to suit the internal needs of your web site except to the extent not permitted in this Agreement
* produce and distribute modifications, modification instructions, designs, or translations of the Software provided that they do not obfuscate or remove any identification of the original source of the original, unaltered Software files
* create or install applications which interface with the operation of the Software provided said application is an original work
* use the Software commercially, provided this act does not conflict with any other provisions in any sections of this Agreement
You may not:
* reverse engineer, disassemble, or create derivative works based on the Software for distribution without the prior, written consent of Immerse
* use the Software in such as way as to condone or encourage terrorism, promote or provide pirated Software, or any other form of illegal or damaging activity
* modify and/or remove any copyright notices or labels on the Software on each page and in the header of each script source file (the link to immersecms.org which is present in the generated content of a default installation of the system is exempt from this term)
* (re-)distribute, sell, fork, or re-brand the Software or modified versions of the Software
* distribute individual copies of files, libraries, or other programming material in the Software package
DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY
The Software is provided on an “AS IS†basis, without warranty of any kind, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, and non-infringement. The entire risk as to the quality and performance of the Software is borne by you. Should the Software prove defective, you and not Immerse assume the entire cost of any service and repair. This disclaimer of warranty constitutes an essential part of the Agreement.
TITLE
Title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in the Software shall remain with Immerse. The Software is protected by copyright laws and treaties. Title and related rights in the content generated through the Software is the property of the applicable content owner and may be protected by applicable law. This License gives Immerse no rights to such content.
TERMINATION
This Agreement will terminate automatically upon failure to comply with the limitations described herein or on written notice from an authorized representative of Immerse. On termination, you must destroy all copies of the Software within 48 hours.
MISCELLANEOUS
Immerse reserves the right to change the terms of this Agreement at any time.
Changes to the Agreement will be announced on the Immerse web site, and are binding whether you have viewed the changes or not.
A current copy of this Agreement will be available on the Immerse web site.
Changes to the license affect all historical releases of the Software unless otherwise noted.
PROPRIETARY LABELS
Any and all copyright notices within the Software may not be removed, altered or obfuscated.
GOVERNING LAW
This Agreement is governed by the Laws of The Netherlands.
Any action in regard to this Agreement of arising out of its terms and conditions shall be instituted and litigated in the Courts of The Hague. Each of the parties consents to jurisdiction in such Courts and agrees that service of process as provided by the states and rules of civil procedures of The Netherlands shall be sufficient.
Wow! I had been following the iCMS project for a while, testing it, then opting to wait for the next beta before using it on a live site. I thought it was great, and, as I peeked in on the iCMS forums fairly frequently (sorry, I became a lurker there instead of a contributor). I was really curious why the servers have been down recently.
Thank you Dean for the history and for sharing your emotional story behind these events. It really does read like a terrific novel, but in all honesty, I extend my deepest sympathy to for essentially having to clean up someone else’s mess, and I extend my most humble admiration for the tactfulness and resolve in which you chose to handle the situation.
As a MODx-er I felt some hostility toward the Etomite camp for a long long time. It has faded, but reading this blog entry really reveals you as a person and I finally realize that it is not fair to blame you or any one at Etomite, or the Etomite project in general for the seemingly childish antics of it’s NSBDFL (not so benevolent dictator for life).
DEAN, I appologise for my feelings toward you, and even though I don’t think I ever verbalized them, I was very angry at “you peopleâ€Â, you know, “the othersâ€Â, for banning MODx. I am sorry. It wasn’t your fault, and today I think you are a really good man.
-sD-
Dr. Scotty Delicious, DFPA.
Doctor of Fine Pirate Arts
http://piratemachine.org
http://scottydelicious.com
It’s such a shame. One of the best CMS’s is now gone. Thanks for the background info – I wondering what this confilct was about.
Best of luck to all.
Hey man, this story is catching quite some buzz. I too was/am an active ICMS user and to read this is really painful. Wish you all the best in the future!!! And thank you for the info about this situation, much appreciated.
Good luck,
Jasper
wow. glad i didn’t spend any more time than i did with immerse!
Well the holding page for immersecms.org has changed to say “returning soon†so something is going on
I was speaking with Maz the other day; it’s absolutely crazy if it does return – people won’t trust it to stay around for long.
Well, sad to Say, InvisionCube disappeared
Looks like it was the final nail in the coffin for I.C.
R.I.P. InvisionCube.com
Also, nothing’s changed on the Immerse website – it’s supposedly still Coming Soon
This comes as a shock to me. Untill now all of this has passed me by, and I hadn’t read anything about it. Alex was high up on my good-guys list. Well that’s changed now.
I’m thankfull that Etomite was handed over before Alex abandonned ship instead of taking this ship down with him. I haven’t used or checked any other CMS since I found Etomite. I hope I’ll be able to use it for many years to come.
I hope for Maz he comes by/through.
Best wishes to you all.
Hey Dean,
Thanks for the back story… it was a good read and I appreciate you and Ralph for sticking with Etomite the way you have.
What is this a soap opera or a CMS website?
Ummm neither :p
It’s a blog from the developers of a CMS